tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1566597750374379863.post8806650620425667245..comments2024-03-27T06:21:15.836-05:00Comments on The Free Beer Movement: Brews and Views Essay Series: Why American Soccer?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1566597750374379863.post-5291821086856155592011-11-10T17:29:49.560-06:002011-11-10T17:29:49.560-06:00Gazza - I suppose mild sarcasm never really comes ...Gazza - I suppose mild sarcasm never really comes across on the internet. In any case, I think your points about the "ideal" world only proves my point; the league plays a huge and important role. A "free market solution" thus doesn't apply as this is not a free market, unless you're talking about leagues rather than individual teams (but even then, US soccer is not going to sanction 2 division one leagues). <br /><br />Also, I didn't make any point about popularity (which is important only to an extent). The current structure of the NFL has worked very well and thus far I suppose it is working fine for MLS. The question is whether or not it contributes to a higher level of play, especially compared to the rest of the world. For the NFL, this isn't an issue and unless every other country in the world starts playing American football with pro leagues at least 3 tiers deep, I doubt it ever will be. For MLS and US soccer, however, I think this is simply a different story. <br /><br />But you are right about at least one thing... I don't have the money :-)Nordmannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1566597750374379863.post-88041997052121318492011-11-10T13:00:31.322-06:002011-11-10T13:00:31.322-06:00Nordmann - the ideal world that Babieca was talkin...Nordmann - the ideal world that Babieca was talking about existed before 1996 for a decade and before the original NASL. We had totally independent clubs and leagues for most of our history - we had promotion and relegation available even before 1916 for anyone or group to create a league structure that (to use your words) does not ``....restrict access to the top tier and provides more support to this tier than others....``. Problem is the likes of you and Teddy don`t have the money or smarts or belief in your own theory to back up the notion of `MLS limiting the viability of lower teams and our game will only suffer`. That`s akin to saying the popularity of the NFL in the Superbowl Era has hurt the game of football in America. It just isn`t true.Gazzanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1566597750374379863.post-67656475857636462862011-11-10T00:09:17.779-06:002011-11-10T00:09:17.779-06:00Babieca - that ideal world you're talking abou...Babieca - that ideal world you're talking about sounds nice and if every team (MLS, NASL, PDL, etc.) all competed (business wise) as individual teams, I think you might have a convincing argument. You are right to point out that the success of each team is a critical factor; if you're putting a crappy product on the field no one is going to watch it. This, however, is only one side of the coin and it assumes that nothing else is there to help you on your way. That's simply not the case. Both the league and perhaps more importantly US Soccer also play a role in your success. Whether this is access to CCL, the competition you regularly play, TV broadcasts, media coverage, etc. Will the LA Blues every really compete with the Galaxy if they regularly play the LA Legends rather than the sounders, fire, etc. The realistic answer is no, even if they win their division for the next 5 years and in stunning fashion. Even if they pay for the players to win the Open cup, the next week their back to playing the Legends again and ticket sales for that match just won't quite cut it. <br /><br />Similarly, just think about how much NASL had to do to get sanctioning and whether those teams would have really survived without a league to promote/support them (half the saga with the USL/NASL split was about the role of the league in helping to support/market the teams). The bottom line is that if your league structure restricts access to the top tier and/or provides more support to this tier than others, this will have significant effects for anyone else. <br /><br />While I think we're a ways from pro/rel, I think it has to come eventually. I'm not quite sure what reason MLS ever has to do it and I agree that I don't see this as a natural evolution for MLS. That said, I think that without a viable set of lower divisions, the American game will suffer as a whole. It's no secret that our lower divisions are struggling to stay alive as it is. Keeping this in mind, compare our top 3 leagues (currently at a total 36 teams) to Germany's (currently at a total of 56 teams). The viability of 56 teams has to be important for the development of German soccer as a whole. If the US is limited to viable pro teams in MLS only, our game will always suffer. At some point, there has to be a stronger reason to invest in a d2 or d3 team and promotion, I think, will be that reason.Nordmannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1566597750374379863.post-72938655498521150482011-11-09T22:46:17.188-06:002011-11-09T22:46:17.188-06:00Sorry Teddy, division 1 status actually means very...Sorry Teddy, division 1 status actually means very little. You might have to deal with access to just one CCL spot for a few years, but put out a better product than MLS and you're the new defacto D1. MLS will whither away if people prefer to watch your soccer instead. It's a simple free market solution. <br /><br />And fortunately for you, you don't need anywhere close to 100 million dollars to start a USSF sanctioned team. You can affiliate a PDL-Pro team for .075% of that fee (an independent NPSL team would cost even less, but you would have to deal with a salary cap,and we know how you feel about that). You'll have to come up with some money to pay players too and coaches, office staff, trainers, game day staff, etc. Then there's travel, uniforms and equipment, renting or building a stadium, etc. You'll also probably want to talk some other teams into doing the same thing. Otherwise people will get bored of watching your superstars beat up on college kids on their summer break.<br /><br />You've got a vision. The path is clear. Instead of complaining that Kraft, Hunt, AEG, and the rest of the MLS cartel don't want to spend their money the way you would like them to, step out from behind your computer and show us that your way works better. Like Gandhi said, be the change you wish to see in the world. <br /><br />If you're in my town I promise I'll come out to one of your games and bring a friend. If it's any good I'm sure I'll come back.Babiecahttp://twitter.com/historian_xixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1566597750374379863.post-15822196693386688362011-11-09T20:25:07.397-06:002011-11-09T20:25:07.397-06:00Elliott: ask Don Garber if there would be top flig...Elliott: ask Don Garber if there would be top flight soccer in the US without MLS. Then tell me he's not a creationist. That's why theories about MLS evolving towards promotion and relegation are pretty much bunk. <br /><br />Babieca: You can't join D1 in the US without paying Don Garber $100 million. That's called a sanctioned shakedown.<br /><br />Someday, when the President of US Soccer is not paid to be Bob Kraft's chamber maid, we'll get real leadership on this issue. Until then, you guys keep waiting for blue green algae to morph into bigfoot.Teddyhttp://www.soccerreform.usnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1566597750374379863.post-92045679496056032722011-11-09T17:41:57.905-06:002011-11-09T17:41:57.905-06:00The only thing worse than an ideologue is ad homin...The only thing worse than an ideologue is ad hominem attacks - save it for anonymous forums and other sites.<br /><br />I can relate to the angst of the author - I also want MLS to sign top talent and also be able to retain promising young Americans. As someone who has followed the league since its early years, it definitely had a Wal-mart feel and was a tough sell to non-die hards. <br /><br />Now, as the league has grown, it is more Target than Wal-mart, but still has a ways to go. Nevertheless, the best European business model is the stable yet talented Bundesliga, not the shiny lights of the cooked books and unsustainable premier league or La Liga. And MLS is not more than two decades away from that.elliotthttp://futfanatico.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1566597750374379863.post-34830184082250192512011-11-09T11:51:23.801-06:002011-11-09T11:51:23.801-06:00Today, as in 1916, there is nothing stopping a vis...Today, as in 1916, there is nothing stopping a visionary from starting a team, buying or finding and training the best players, and becoming a new titan of American soccer, unfettered by salary caps, drafts, or allocation money; nothing but good sense. <br /><br />The independent club route was the only game in town for 80 years in this country and it wasn't able to generate enough interest to have a stable nation-wide league. MLS tried something different and despite the bumpy road has managed to do what hundreds upon hundreds of independent clubs could not. <br /><br />What MLS has not done, however, is form a monopoly on US soccer. There are about 200 USSF sanctioned independent men's teams in this country and nothing stopping more from forming. <br /><br />Want those teams to supplant MLS? All they have to do is play good enough soccer that people would rather watch them than watch MLS and pay high enough wages that players would rather play for them than for MLS. Simple right?Babiecahttp://twitter.com/historian_xixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1566597750374379863.post-67295781185188041752011-11-09T07:30:44.264-06:002011-11-09T07:30:44.264-06:00No better way to discredit your own website and pr...No better way to discredit your own website and product then by giving this idiot a stage. Very disappointing.Robertnoreply@blogger.com